More expensive migrations, with less functionality

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pup_seba
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More expensive migrations, with less functionality

Postby pup_seba » Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:06 pm

Or at least, that's what I understand from the announcement done by Zimbra about not supporting anymore:

ZCS Migration Wizard for Domino
Legacy ZCS Migration Wizard for Exchange 


And putting in "technical guidance" these other tools:

General ZCS Exchange Migration wizard (32 & 64 bits) (Until: 12/31/2020)
ZCS Account Migration Wizard within the Admin UI (Until 12/17/2019)

It seems now that users have to pay if they want to use a tool to migrate to zimbra, which also seems to be a tool that does not support things like public folders or files...which I found ridiculous for a 'migration tool", not to talk about the 5u$s we will have to pay for each mailbox to migrate.

https://zimbra.audriga.com/#howto

This is just my personal opinion, but, it just seems that zimbra is taking all the wrong decisions you can take, unless of course you are just trying to kill the product.
- Almost no participation in its comunity
- Not providing a bug report system
- Outdated and incomplete documentation
- Outdated training materials
- No certification program
- No (real) traning for partners
- 1 or 2 bugs fixed...every 2 weeks!
- Fingers crossed for support given to be provided by either us or eu teams. When support is provided from india, the experience is behyond dissapointing.
- Things "forgotten" in its code...like still having the attributes for cluster always on in its code...
- Not caring about user, partner, community feedback

Maybe I'm wrong with all of this, is just that I am quite confused and can not understand it :/


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Re: More expensive migrations, with less functionality

Postby phoenix » Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:52 pm

pup_seba wrote:This is just my personal opinion, but, it just seems that zimbra is taking all the wrong decisions you can take, unless of course you are just trying to kill the product.
- Almost no participation in its comunity
- Not providing a bug report system
- Outdated and incomplete documentation
- Outdated training materials
- No certification program
- No (real) traning for partners
- 1 or 2 bugs fixed...every 2 weeks!
- Fingers crossed for support given to be provided by either us or eu teams. When support is provided from india, the experience is behyond dissapointing.
- Things "forgotten" in its code...like still having the attributes for cluster always on in its code...
- Not caring about user, partner, community feedback

Maybe I'm wrong with all of this, is just that I am quite confused and can not understand it :/
You can add me to your list of confused people. :) I have no idea what the intent of Synacor is when it introduces 'practices' such as these unless, of course, they have some secret killer app that's going to replace the missing products for migration but I doubt it.

The worst thing a company can do is ignore it's user base (that includes the OSS version) as it engenders a belief that Synacor don't care about the product, all they want is to improve the bottom line. In addition these forums have been left to are being left to wither on the vine - it's extremely sad that they have no interaction here and they don't understand the ill will that instils in people, the forums are an extremely valuable asset that they are ignoring. Enough of that, it's sunny here and I'm off to chop down a tree and do some further refurbishment of our house.
Regards

Bill

Rspamd: A high performance spamassassin replacement

If you'd like to see this implemented in a future version of ZCS then please vote on Bugzilla entries 97706 & 108168
7224jobe
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Re: More expensive migrations, with less functionality

Postby 7224jobe » Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:15 am

pup_seba wrote:
This is just my personal opinion, but, it just seems that zimbra is taking all the wrong decisions you can take, unless of course you are just trying to kill the product.
- Almost no participation in its comunity
- Not providing a bug report system
- Outdated and incomplete documentation
- Outdated training materials
- No certification program
- No (real) traning for partners
- 1 or 2 bugs fixed...every 2 weeks!
- Fingers crossed for support given to be provided by either us or eu teams. When support is provided from india, the experience is behyond dissapointing.
- Things "forgotten" in its code...like still having the attributes for cluster always on in its code...
- Not caring about user, partner, community feedback

Maybe I'm wrong with all of this, is just that I am quite confused and can not understand it :/


I sadly quote each one of your remarks... I'd say that since Jorge de la Cruz left about a year ago, the forums and the wiki had very few official updates. For example the green bar on top of the forums is still announcing Zimbra 8.8.7 and 8.6 patch 9 whereas now there are out 8.8.12 and 8.6 patch 13...Moreover, this forum does not keep my session, even if I tick the box "keep me logged in" I have to login with username and password every time I visit any topic.

But I do not think that anyone from Zimbra will ever read our complaints here :roll:
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Re: More expensive migrations, with less functionality

Postby audriga » Wed May 22, 2019 12:14 pm

Dear Sebastian,

(sorry for the late post, this answer somehow got stuck in forum moderation)

thanks for commenting on migration tooling.

As far as I see you're touching various different issues and I'll try to address some as good as possible.

(1) As for your comment on not migrating public folders or files:

It's true that this is currently not explicitly mentioned in the description of the self-service version of our tool. We're however able to support this upon request and strive to include this in the self-service version as well.

Major issues are due to to the nature of both topics:
* Public folders: there exist different concepts named "public folders" in different systems. Hence, the particular scenario matters. What would you consider the most relevant ones in your case?
* Files: Zimbra currently supports three different (distinct) types of support for files: Briefcase, "Open Drive" (prior Zimbra Drive) and the new Zimbra Drive. While we support the first two, we're currently investigating the API options for the new Zimbra Drive


(1b) Please also note the novel migration tooling also has a number of new features:

* In contrast to imapsync/prior Zimbra migration tools it is:
** Easy to setup (by Web UI /even by end users)
** Can migrate many mailboxes in parallel
** Does not require to run/maintain own computing resources

* In contrast to imapsync it will migrate not just mail but also contacts/calendars/tasks/settings for many systems

* In contrast to prior Zimbra tools, many groupware systems are supported as source (not just Exchange/Notes)

* File migration, by the way, is neither supported by imapsync/prior Zimbra migration tools as well (except of some cli tools, which however run separate from email migration and only supports very specific cases)


(2) As for your comment on pricing:

Note that the current price model described on https://zimbra.audriga.com mainly applies to smaller self-service migrations and are targeted for business mailboxes, which are typically paid by mailbox by customers.

Discounts for larger amounts of migrations are possible. Also, we know the usage of Zimbra differs - from business to government or consumer customers. We may offer specific pricing for specific settings upon request.

Note that we also offer custom pricing for "platform migrations" i.e., migrations of several thousand mailboxes which are not "customer-driven", but in which a service provider switches a whole userbase from another solution to Zimbra. We've done such projects with multiple millions of accounts in the past. The price model here differs vastly, as this is typically addressed in a project-based fashion. Contact us for a quote if necessary.

As a more general note, we're offering migration "as-a-service"; i.e., continuously developing our solution, providing an out-of-the-box scalable migration solution including support and maintenance.

Compared to "free" tooling, our solution includes:
* Operations (computing resources)
* Automated scalability
* Robustness (e.g., service error handling; throttling)
* Professional maintenance and further feature development
* Usability (Web-UI)
* Providing a standardized approach; ideally helping you to plan easier
* More transparent for end customers (when sharing migration status information)
* Support

In summary, we try to focus on trying to relieve service providers from the hard parts of migration, while still allowing them to provide additional migration services around the "low-level" data copying we do. So options for service providers are:
* Using/reselling our service as such or as part of a larger migration offering
* Providing end customers with self-service migration capabilities (either by reselling or giving them for free - e.g. if agreeing for a minimum contract duration)

Finally note we're also happy to offer free test migration codes for feasibility checks in early project phases upon request.


(3) As for your further comments:

As far as I see, those address general Zimbra support/documentation. I cannot comment on behalf of Zimbra here, but based on my experience with various different groupware vendors, the state of practice concerning Zimbra documentation and support seems to be well above average. There's also always room for improvement, certainly.

I can however assure you, that we're eager to support your feature/documentation expectations with respect to the migration tooling. I am looking forward your input.

Thanks and best,
Hans-Jörg (audriga)
phoenix
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Re: More expensive migrations, with less functionality

Postby phoenix » Wed May 22, 2019 12:23 pm

audriga wrote:(sorry for the late post, this answer somehow got stuck in forum moderation)
It was in moderation for seven minutes, hardly the end of the world and the reason for that is that the forum anti-spam system thinks you may be a spammer.
Regards

Bill

Rspamd: A high performance spamassassin replacement

If you'd like to see this implemented in a future version of ZCS then please vote on Bugzilla entries 97706 & 108168
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Re: More expensive migrations, with less functionality

Postby audriga » Wed May 22, 2019 12:37 pm

phoenix wrote:It was in moderation for seven minutes, hardly the end of the world and the reason for that is that the forum anti-spam system thinks you may be a spammer.


Dear Bill,

thanks for the prompt reply.

I initially posted this (and two other posts) at the beginning of April. That was what I was referring to.

Thanks again, best
Hans-Jörg
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Re: More expensive migrations, with less functionality

Postby phoenix » Wed May 22, 2019 12:39 pm

I'm afraid there's no sign of any earlier posts other than the ones you've posted today (22nd May), I don't know what happened to them and I certainly didn't see them.
Regards

Bill

Rspamd: A high performance spamassassin replacement

If you'd like to see this implemented in a future version of ZCS then please vote on Bugzilla entries 97706 & 108168
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Re: More expensive migrations, with less functionality

Postby gbillat » Wed May 22, 2019 3:11 pm

Hi Everyone -- audriga's posts were indeed awaiting intervention from the Zimbra end. Unfortunately, it took several weeks for the issue to be addressed. They were indeed trying to respond since April.

Very sorry for the delay and any confusion. Thanks!
Gayle
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Re: More expensive migrations, with less functionality

Postby phoenix » Wed May 22, 2019 3:20 pm

gbillat wrote:Hi Everyone -- audriga's posts were indeed awaiting intervention from the Zimbra end. Unfortunately, it took several weeks for the issue to be addressed. They were indeed trying to respond since April.

Very sorry for the delay and any confusion. Thanks!
Gayle
Might it not have been of some use to advise the moderators of that problem instead of making us all look like clowns, or don't you care what happens here? I guess the only reason you're posting in this thread is because the poster is one of your 'partners' whereas when it's your paying customers or anyone from the open source community you totally ignore legitimate questions/problems and comments.
Regards

Bill

Rspamd: A high performance spamassassin replacement

If you'd like to see this implemented in a future version of ZCS then please vote on Bugzilla entries 97706 & 108168
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Re: More expensive migrations, with less functionality

Postby gbillat » Wed May 22, 2019 5:39 pm

Hi Bill -- I posted because the hang-up was *internally* at Zimbra. It had nothing to do with you or any other forum moderators. I wanted to be sure everyone understood that. Sorry if my first message did not clearly convey that intention.

ETA: I absolutely care what happens in the forums. Unfortunately, I don't typically post in the forums because I don't have the technical expertise to answer the questions posted here. I responded in this case because I knew about the internal Zimbra delays.

You and the other moderators are FANTASTIC, and we greatly appreciate your efforts in the forums.

Many thanks,
Gayle

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