Outlock connector

Ask your questions and get help with Zimbra's Outlook Connector.
jka
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Outlock connector

Postby jka » Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:37 pm

A few questions about the Outlook support
Here you say that support for Outlook will be coming soon. I guess it's some kind of plugin for Outlook. Have you any timeframe when this will be included?
Will the Outlook support ever be in the Open Source version of Zimbra?


14319KevinH
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Outlock connector

Postby 14319KevinH » Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:46 pm

At this time there are no plans to open source the Outlook MAPI connector. One reason is that we've used a 3rd party mime parser that we don't have rights to open source.
jka
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Outlock connector

Postby jka » Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:40 am

OK, I have still not found any open source (FOSS) collaboration server that includes an open source (FOSS) Outlook connector. (I'm just curious becuse of the site I'm maintaining)
ivo_toshev
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Outlock connector

Postby ivo_toshev » Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:16 am

Hello everyone,

First - i am pretty sure that more than a month ago, when this forum was with just a couple of messages, it was nothing about a commercial version and i'm sure there was a message which says that Outlook MAPI connector will be open source and free too.
Then i didnt believed about that, now i am right.

But thats OK for license fee.

If we face the facts - the most user-friendly and feature-full groupware client is MS Outlook. I am sure it will take more time for open-source MAPI connector ( there are 2 sf projects which have very slow progress, but they advance for sure )
Second,

I am investigating Groupware solutions in OS arena for more than 3 years. I am personally installed and analyzed:

-MS Exchange 5.5/2000/2003

- Novell GroupWise 6.5/7.0

- IBM Lotus Notes 6.x/7.0

- Samsung Contact ( based on HP OpenMail )

- Scalix ( based on HP OpenMail )



Didnt mention kolab because it is a such misconception, than i just dont wanna talk about it.
For these analyzes there is a couple and simple critera:

Situation : Terminal Services under Windows ( RDP ) 2000/ 2003

Terminal Services under Linux with Crossover Office and MS Office and Outlook 2000/2003;
Criteria:

- Using MS Outlook like client app with full features as possible and without any local file cashing. ( nor local PST as IBM Lotus Outlook Connector use , nor ost , nor nothing ). Imagine 20 users with local PST files with 1,5 GB each - to start their Outlooks in their terminal session - i can tell you what happens - terminal server just stop responding for 10 minutes and more.

- Minimum memory utilization of MAPI connector - same reason - terminal sessions;

- as feature-rich web client - as it can be. ( You beat here ! )

- Server side on Linux/FreeBSD or any other OpenSource OS.

- Easy backup/recovery tools;



So - if your Outlook connector will be like this - then it will be great.
Now , about the licenses fee:

The problem with license per mbox and not all users need full features:

Scalix ( http://www.scalix.com ) for example : In their system you may create enterprise or community user. For the first one - you have to pay , for the second one - no - its free, but cannot use MAPI connector to access the server store - just IMAP/POP
And one question:

It will be possible to buy licenses for one year - and to use them for the next years, but without support ?

Or it will be like MS software insurance ?
Sorry for my bad english and for the long letter
.. and keep the good work.
Andy.pflaum
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Outlock connector

Postby Andy.pflaum » Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:22 am

[quote user="ivo_toshev"]Hello everyone,

First - i am pretty sure that more than a month ago, when this forum was with just a couple of messages, it was nothing about a commercial version and i'm sure there was a message which says that Outlook MAPI connector will be open source and free too.
Then i didnt believed about that, now i am right.

But thats OK for license fee.

[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the comments, and the criteria for a good Outlook connector. To clear up one specific question: dating back to more than 2 months ago (basically the beginning of the history of these Forums), we stated that the Outlook connector would not be open-sourced. If you search the Forums, you'll find a number of postings & discussions to this effect dating from the first half of September onwards. Here's one early such example that I'm aware of:
[quote user="ivo_toshev"">http://www.zimbra.com/forums/showpost.php?p=197&postcount=3
[quote user="ivo_toshev"
]

And one question:

It will be possible to buy licenses for one year - and to use them for the next years, but without support ?

Or it will be like MS software insurance ?

[/QUOTE]

The Network Edition (including the Outlook Connector) is an annual subscription which includes not just Support and updates/upgrades, but also the 'right-to-use' the software. So when the term of the subscription lapses, it will need to be renewed, or else the right-to-use also expires with it. Thanks again for the feedback.
ivo_toshev
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Outlock connector

Postby ivo_toshev » Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:38 am

[quote]

The Network Edition (including the Outlook Connector) is an annual subscription which includes not just Support and updates/upgrades, but also the 'right-to-use' the software. So when the term of the subscription lapses, it will need to be renewed, or else the right-to-use also expires with it. Thanks again for the feedback.[/QUOTE]
Hm,

If the price of the license is $30 per user per year ( as it was noted in forums ) , so for 200 users it is $6000 per year. Maybe your product beats MS Exchange and others in real, but its new, so hope you will find clients.

We have over 250 users but for $6000 per year - it will took 2 years to make the price of Novell GroupWise and 3 years for full MS Exchange 2003 and others
Andy.pflaum
Posts: 34
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Outlock connector

Postby Andy.pflaum » Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:36 am

[quote user="ivo_toshev"]Hm,

If the price of the license is $30 per user per year ( as it was noted in forums ) , so for 200 users it is $6000 per year.[/QUOTE]One point -- when we released the Beta of our Network Edition earlier this week, we clarified that the annual subscription price would be $28/user/year. See this posting:


[quote user="ivo_toshev"">http://www.zimbra.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3530&postcount=10
[quote user="ivo_toshev"
]

it will took 2 years to make the price of Novell GroupWise and 3 years for full MS Exchange 2003 and others[/QUOTE]Actually, based on published prices for MS Exchange (including annual support fees for Exchange), it takes at least 5 years for the Zimbra subscription price to match the Exchange price. By which time any Exchange customer likely would have to pay for an upgrade, or be about to, to the next Exchange version anyway. Not certain about GroupWise, but I'm also pretty sure it's considerably longer than the 2 years you mention. Please keep in mind, our subscription *includes* support -- there's not an additional annual fee for that, as there is with the other products you mentioned.
Also, we believe there is some benefit in the openness of ZCS, vs. the relatively closed architectures of the other solutions you mentioned. For example, how easily can a customer or 3rd party integrate another application via web services to one of the solutions you mentioned? Some customers have said they don't have complete confidence in the future direction, or the flexibility, of the closed-source/proprietary solutions they have chosen. We hope that by providing an open architecture, and building a community around the solution, that provides benefits beyond simply what you've directly licensed.
Finally, a lot of companies have said they *prefer* an annual subscription, because it spreads the payments out -- instead of paying a giant lump sum at the beginning, but still having to pay 15-20% in annual support -- and because it also helps make budgeting more predictible. Clearly not everyone prefers any single pricing model, but we needed to pick one, and this one seems to meet the interests of most customers. Not that we won't modify it some as we go, but I did want to provide some background/rationale for why we've chosen this pricing model and level.
ivo_toshev
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:00 pm

Outlock connector

Postby ivo_toshev » Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:32 am

[QUOTE]One point -- when we released the Beta of our Network Edition earlier this week, we clarified that the annual subscription price would be $28/user/year. See this posting:

http://www.zimbra.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3530&postcount=10

[/QUOTE]
OK. $ 30 > $28 ;-)
[QUOTE]Actually, based on published prices for MS Exchange (including annual support fees for Exchange), it takes at least 5 years for the Zimbra subscription price to match the Exchange price. By which time any Exchange customer likely would have to pay for an upgrade, or be about to, to the next Exchange version anyway. [/QUOTE]
Totally wrong. First you forgot about the price of the Outlook itself, which is cheaper if you buy it as Exchange CAL. And there are no additional price for standart server (which now supports store up to 70 GB prrivate & 70GB public).

Look - i dont want to promote MS, or to use it. But what you mention is not right - we still use Exchange 5.5 as it was 10 years ago. No one forces us to upgrade.
[QUOTE] Not certain about GroupWise, but I'm also pretty sure it's considerably longer than the 2 years you mention. Please keep in mind, our subscription *includes* support -- there's not an additional annual fee for that, as there is with the other products you mentioned.

[/QUOTE]


GroupWise price for 250 users with installation and migration + support for 2 years = 18 000 Euro ( its promotional price and competetive upgrade ).
[QUOTE]

Also, we believe there is some benefit in the openness of ZCS, vs. the relatively closed architectures of the other solutions you mentioned. For example, how easily can a customer or 3rd party integrate another application via web services to one of the solutions you mentioned?[/QUOTE]
Yes - open model is the best in this. But the others have tools and APIs and IDEs - so it is not imposibble.
[QUOTE]

Finally, a lot of companies have said they *prefer* an annual subscription, because it spreads the payments out -- instead of paying a giant lump sum at the beginning, but still having to pay 15-20% in annual support -- and because it also helps make budgeting more predictible. [/QUOTE]
Hm - you sad that.
[QUOTE]

Clearly not everyone prefers any single pricing model, but we needed to pick one, and this one seems to meet the interests of most customers. Not that we won't modify it some as we go, but I did want to provide some background/rationale for why we've chosen this pricing model and level.

[/QUOTE]
I hope you are right - because your product is really good and if you change your pricing model or just include more options - we will look at it again for sure.
have a nice day and wish you many many successes
Ivaylo Toshev

CCNA / MCP / Sair LCP
jdcarson
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Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:58 pm

Outlock connector

Postby jdcarson » Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:31 am

We also upgraded to Exchange 5.5 in 1999, and have not spent a cent except for a single support call @ $250, but with guaranteed resolution.
And we are not thrilled with Exchange as a solution, but annual expenses are currently $0. It will take some serious scrutinizing to go from that point to $1400/year (50 users). And what happens if we want to add users? How will single licenses be added? On occasion, we have added users from our parent company in Germany for collaboration reasons. Will we have to wait for updated certificates or some other similar vehicle to add users above the initial subscription? :confused:
How about the future? Will Zimbra remain a self-owned entity? We were burned by the Novell-Suse buyout. Shortly after purchasing what looked like a robust open source solution (OpenExchange 4.1), as we waited for anticipated enhancements, Novell decided that it just wasn't worth the effort/ competed with Groupwise or some other BS that made it even difficult to get the most basic support. Getting a login to their support site took weeks.
Regardless of these uncertainties, we are very excited about Zimbra, but somewhat hessitant to jump in head first. We are still waitng to see promised functionality and the Outlook connector. And hoping for some reworking of the licensing structure (perhaps a discounted renewal fee after the first year?)
Best of luck, and keep up the great work,
Jon
14319KevinH
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Outlock connector

Postby 14319KevinH » Sat Nov 19, 2005 9:58 am

[quote user="jdcarson"]We are still waitng to see promised functionality and the Outlook connector.[/QUOTE]
I'll let Andy or Jim take the license questions. What other *promised* functionality are you referring to?

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